Ukraine War

[starch]

This is the concern with the US throwing billions at Ukraine.

Ukraine Rocked By Corruption Scandal, Wave Of Top Officials Resign: Sports Cars, Mansions & Luxury Vacations As People Suffered | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Pack Mack]

This is the concern with the US throwing billions at Ukraine.

Ukraine Rocked By Corruption Scandal, Wave Of Top Officials Resign: Sports Cars, Mansions & Luxury Vacations As People Suffered | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Strong culture of corruption in that region.
I have some good stories involving cesium and 1942 US Treasury bonds.
Thats part of the reason the Ukraine people elected Zelensky to clean it up and that’s why NATO and Deloitte are accounting for things closely.
US & NATO married the stripper putting herself through college getting straight “A’s”.
For better or worse….

 

[basser]

All of the former Soviet countries and client states are heavily corrupt. It’s another reason most of the people want to be part of a European future and not a Russian one. It’s also why the Russian army is failing. Why do you think those truck tires were dry rotten? Someone earned a lot of cash selling what should have been new, good tires to the Russian military while providing them ones that had been in an unheated warehouse for a decade. Multiply that across all supplies.

If Ronald Reagan were alive and lucid today, he would say this war and the incompetence and corruption of the Russian military is direct proof of the superiority of Western values and capitalism to Russian values and communism. He would also see it as an existential fight for the success of those Western values to be embraced by those former Soviet countries and client states, that they would have the freedom to choose.

Seeing Zelensky and his govt as part of that Soviet-style corruption, when the reality is the opposite, and that he represents the interests of Ukraine’s majority who see their future with Europe and not Russia, is nothing but propaganda— either from Russia itself or self-interested dupes like Carlson.

Failing to support Ukraine would represent a bigger mistake than the invasion of Iraq. The next year in Ukraine will be harsh, but three years from now, the most likely outcome is that Russia will be completely falling apart, and that internally places like St. Petersburg will also be looking wistfully at Europe.

 

[Pack Mack]

All of the former Soviet countries and client states are heavily corrupt. It’s another reason most of the people want to be part of a European future and not a Russian one. It’s also why the Russian army is failing. Why do you think those truck tires were dry rotten? Someone earned a lot of cash selling what should have been new, good tires to the Russian military while providing them ones that had been in an unheated warehouse for a decade. Multiply that across all supplies.

If Ronald Reagan were alive and lucid today, he would say this war and the incompetence and corruption of the Russian military is direct proof of the superiority of Western values and capitalism to Russian values and communism. He would also see it as an existential fight for the success of those Western values to be embraced by those former Soviet countries and client states, that they would have the freedom to choose.

Seeing Zelensky and his govt as part of that Soviet-style corruption, when the reality is the opposite, and that he represents the interests of Ukraine’s majority who see their future with Europe and not Russia, is nothing but propaganda— either from Russia itself or self-interested dupes like Carlson.

Failing to support Ukraine would represent a bigger mistake than the invasion of Iraq. The next year in Ukraine will be harsh, but three years from now, the most likely outcome is that Russia will be completely falling apart, and that internally places like St. Petersburg will also be looking wistfully at Europe.

Everyone should like this post multiple times. Spot on. Russia has made the Ukraine military operation (read War) an existential
crisis. Its senior leadership now speaks in apocalyptic terms about the risk of Russia’s very survival, Dagestan & Chechnya are watching. Other dominoes will fall if Russia fails. There are many forces being balanced.
Will another 200,000 Russian military lives lost be tolerated by Russian citizens, high ranking opponents of Putin who have been silent? Will Putin go nuclear to save face and save his life? (He’s unlikely to retire to a tropical island). There’s a long cultural history of assassination.
Will China & India continue to tacitly support Putin?

 

[basser]

And the last question you ask is hugely important. IMO, as Putin focuses on the West, Xi and Modi surely are thinking about how they might exercise economic control and influence in a weakened Russia, specifically controlling energy and mineral assets permanently.

Meanwhile, Xi is not going to risk his global export markets for such a minor economic player, outside of it energy assets, while Modi is trying to position India to take over some of China’s manufacturing capacity as Xi’s regime has scared western investors.

Putin is a fool. He could have also positioned Russia to have a European future, albeit one where he and Russia were probably equal to France and slightly subservient to German, and also one where the US would wade in occasionally to throw around its weight. His ego couldn’t handle it. And his idiotic understanding of Slavic influence couldn’t stand it. So instead he has set up a long term scenario where Russia becomes even weaker, and China and India slowly but surely stick and twist the knife in his back to use their position as his primary energy customers to wrest control of those assets from his own oligarchs.

Just watch as this unfolds over the next five years.

 

[basser]

The ridiculousness of Putin’s ideas is also seen in this little fact: Prior to 1913, Russian elites didn’t even speak Russian. Some of them didn’t even know Russian. They spoke French.

What did a Slavic Russian Empire control, once you got outside St. Petersburg, Moscow and Kyiv? Mud huts inhabited by people raising pigs.

 

[HAWBR]

There are many on here that think they know what is going on there.
Do you really think you can believe or trust what we are being told?
Most everyone in DC are nothing more than lifetime politicians serving their own self interest.
We DO have a few patriots there one of which is Rand Paul. If Senator Paul says Zelensky is a Thug, I believe him.
And if he says that there is no accountability for the $billions sent over there, I believe him on that too.
The more we get involved in a Land War in Europe, the closer we come to another World War

 

[Pack Mack]

There are many on here that think they know what is going on there.
Do you really think you can believe or trust what we are being told?
Most everyone in DC are nothing more than lifetime politicians serving their own self interest.
We DO have a few patriots there one of which is Rand Paul. If Senator Paul says Zelensky is a Thug, I believe him.

So, you actually know more about what is going on in Ukraine than others because you listen to Rand Paul?
Rand Paul said that President Biden provoked Russia by advocating for Ukraine's entrance into NATO. Oddly, Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. Biden was elected in 2020. McConnell said Rand Paul is an isolationist. Rand Paul has never met Zelensky or visited Ukraine. There are objective news sources that can provide information about the War in Ukraine.

 

[woodwolf]

I think HAWBR is skeptical that anyone knows how this war will end , which is the realistic stance. The funds we send to Ukraine should be audited or traced to there ultimate destinations . We know russia is the bad guy ,involving the invasion. I suspect western news sources want to paint a certain picture

 

[Pack Mack]

I think HAWBR is skeptical that anyone knows how this war will end , which is the realistic stance. The funds we send to Ukraine should be audited or traced to there ultimate destinations . We know russia is the bad guy ,involving the invasion. I suspect western news sources want to paint a certain picture

Fair message. I agree. I didn’t read Hawbr’s message the same way you did.

 

[packman30]

I think HAWBR is skeptical that anyone knows how this war will end , which is the realistic stance. The funds we send to Ukraine should be audited or traced to there ultimate destinations . We know russia is the bad guy ,involving the invasion. I suspect western news sources want to paint a certain picture

It’s not hard to paint a picture when there are dead civilians laying in the streets.

 

[woodwolf]

Well, war usually kills civilians. If (probably have)Ukraine strikes targets inside russia , don't you think there would be dead russian civilians ?

 

[Pack Mack]

Well, war usually kills civilians. If (probably have)Ukraine strikes targets inside russia , don't you think there would be dead russian civilians ?

Big difference between striking/attempting to strike a military target in Russia with some civilian casualties and wholesale bombing of civilian and infrastructure targets going on Ukraine, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[woodwolf]

Sure there is a difference between intended an unintended civilian casualties . I was speculating on Ukraine attacking military objectives in Russia causing civilian casualties. Are such attacks being performed ? Would the west verify those attacks and any civilian casualties ?

 

[HAWBR]

I think HAWBR is skeptical that anyone knows how this war will end , which is the realistic stance. The funds we send to Ukraine should be audited or traced to there ultimate destinations . We know russia is the bad guy ,involving the invasion. I suspect western news sources want to paint a certain picture

You are dead on Wood.
Yes, Russia has been evil for a long time.
But
A whole lotta people get rich or wealthier when our crooks in DC spend on wars or send money to their cronies wherever they are.
The Left and most of the “so called “ Right definitely have an agenda and it does not benefit either of us.
Hint: “read my lips, no more taxes
The Federal income tax is a temporary tax and is voluntary.
“These trade agreements sending jobs over seas will be good for the American people
Nuc weapons treaties with Russia
During Vietnam war agreeing to inform the UN before major action
Go read None Dare Call It Treason

I am more than skeptical about how this will end. We started in Vietnam with advisors only. Then our friends and classmates died.

We can’t afford to send billions over there
And if we can, then we can afford abolish personal income tax. Mine anyway

 

[basser]

If Ukraine does something? Russia is doing something — every week.

They just killed a dozen children in a strike on an apartment building.

We don’t need any theoreticals about Putin and Russia. And all this BS about war profiteers and DC politicians — as if that has anything to do with Russia invading a sovereign nation whose only crime is wanting to determine its own destiny and wanting to be a part of open, free Europe.

That you guys equivocate on this is just more evidence in my view that freedom is just a meaningless word to you.

Meanwhile, yeah, HAWBR, I know a lot more than other posters here, except PackMack, and more than Rand Paul. Because I actually read those books that I mentioned. Why don’t you do that instead of listening to a DC politician and blowhard? Masha Gessen is the foremost expert on Putin and Russian foreign policy in the world. And unlike Rand Paul, she predicted all of this 15 years ago. So yeah, she knew how it was going to turn out — until the West finally stood up to Putin.

Finally, woodwulf talks about theoretical skin in the game.

My good friend is from Kherson and lives in Düsseldorf. Her brother and his family live in a Russian occupied village on the left bank of the Dnipro. The school where he and his wife once taught is now occupied and serves a Russian barracks. The Russians try to force them to work for them. They send patrols by their house every day, and people are terrified to leave their homes. My friend wakes up every morning and begins her day crying. That’s skin in the game.

I send her $150 every month so that she can send it to her brother. She wires it to a friend in Spain, who then wires it to her father in western Ukraine, who can then transfer it to her brother. I don’t worry much about corruption. I just hope that she never sends an email, while the war is continuing, to tell me the money is no longer needed.

 

[packman30]

Well, war usually kills civilians. If (probably have)Ukraine strikes targets inside russia , don't you think there would be dead russian civilians ?

It almost feels as if you don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[woodwolf]

It almost feels as if you don’t know what you are talking about.

Yep , i said it was speculation. Your tact would be to make an absolute statement about something that you do not know what you are talking about.

 

[HAWBR]

If Ukraine does something? Russia is doing something — every week.

They just killed a dozen children in a strike on an apartment building.

We don’t need any theoreticals about Putin and Russia. And all this BS about war profiteers and DC politicians — as if that has anything to do with Russia invading a sovereign nation whose only crime is wanting to determine its own destiny and wanting to be a part of open, free Europe.

That you guys equivocate on this is just more evidence in my view that freedom is just a meaningless word to you.

Meanwhile, yeah, HAWBR, I know a lot more than other posters here, except PackMack, and more than Rand Paul. Because I actually read those books that I mentioned. Why don’t you do that instead of listening to a DC politician and blowhard? Masha Gessen is the foremost expert on Putin and Russian foreign policy in the world. And unlike Rand Paul, she predicted all of this 15 years ago. So yeah, she knew how it was going to turn out — until the West finally stood up to Putin.

Finally, woodwulf talks about theoretical skin in the game.

My good friend is from Kherson and lives in Düsseldorf. Her brother and his family live in a Russian occupied village on the left bank of the Dnipro. The school where he and his wife once taught is now occupied and serves a Russian barracks. The Russians try to force them to work for them. They send patrols by their house every day, and people are terrified to leave their homes. My friend wakes up every morning and begins her day crying. That’s skin in the game.

I send her $150 every month so that she can send it to her brother. She wires it to a friend in Spain, who then wires it to her father in western Ukraine, who can then transfer it to her brother. I don’t worry much about corruption. I just hope that she never sends an email, while the war is continuing, to tell me the money is no longer needed.

Basser
Your post is very touching. My heart is truly heavy for the poor Ukrainian people.
I sincerely wish we could help them.
This war is over the world reserve currency.
The Ukrainians are innocent victims.
The world is full of evil.
If I had trust in the leaders sending the money there and those receiving it, I might feel differently.
The German leader said today “we are fighting a war against Russia “
Ukraine is called the most corrupt country in Europe.
Face it, we are at war with Russia and it may not take long for China and the rest of Russia’s allies to join in.

I do have mixed emotions on this but remember when we had to stop communism in Nam
This is much more dangerous.

 

[packman30]

Yep , i said it was speculation. Your tact would be to make an absolute statement about something that you do not know what you are talking about.

There are plenty of places to learn if you put in a little effort.

 

[basser]

Basser
Your post is very touching. My heart is truly heavy for the poor Ukrainian people.
I sincerely wish we could help them.
This war is over the world reserve currency.
The Ukrainians are innocent victims.
The world is full of evil.
If I had trust in the leaders sending the money there and those receiving it, I might feel differently.
The German leader said today “we are fighting a war against Russia “
Ukraine is called the most corrupt country in Europe

The war is about an authoritarian regime trying to impose its will on a free people. And we can and are helping them to avoid that fate. I am sorry that you don’t understand that.

 

[basser]

Here is a good look at what is happening in Bakhmut, if anyone is interested. Looks a lot like the Russians’ Bulge in some respects. The Ukrainians give a 100 yards and kill or wound a thousand soldiers. Since November, Russian soldiers are dying at a rate not seen since WW II. It’s mid-19th century war tactics in the 21st century, and Western militaries are much better at killing soldiers using those tactics today than then. Putin is a butcher of his own people, just like Stalin.

Ukraine’s Drones and Artillery Ambushes vs. Kremlin Human Wave Assaults

Russian non-state sources have been astounded by the casualties they’ve suffered as Ukraine seems to be baiting them into a meat grinder while waiting for the West’s heavy weapons.

www.kyivpost.com

 

[HAWBR]

All of the former Soviet countries and client states are heavily corrupt. It’s another reason most of the people want to be part of a European future and not a Russian one. It’s also why the Russian army is failing. Why do you think those truck tires were dry rotten? Someone earned a lot of cash selling what should have been new, good tires to the Russian military while providing them ones that had been in an unheated warehouse for a decade. Multiply that across all supplies.

If Ronald Reagan were alive and lucid today, he would say this war and the incompetence and corruption of the Russian military is direct proof of the superiority of Western values and capitalism to Russian values and communism. He would also see it as an existential fight for the success of those Western values to be embraced by those former Soviet countries and client states, that they would have the freedom to choose.

Seeing Zelensky and his govt as part of that Soviet-style corruption, when the reality is the opposite, and that he represents the interests of Ukraine’s majority who see their future with Europe and not Russia, is nothing but propaganda— either from Russia itself or self-interested dupes like Carlson.

Failing to support Ukraine would represent a bigger mistake than the invasion of Iraq. The next year in Ukraine will be harsh, but three years from now, the most likely outcome is that Russia will be completely falling apart, and that internally places like St. Petersburg will also be looking wistfully at Europe.

You really believe that Zelensky is not corrupt. Would you have me believe that he chopped down his father’s cherry tree and could not lie about it or he walked nine miles to return a penny that was not his.
Moral, honest, truthful? He is jined at the hip with the Biden’s

How do you know so much? You will never know all the truth listening to any news outlets. If you had personal every day contact with the Zelensky administration do You expect them to admit corruption? No
I don’t trust our government much less a strong charismatic character out of the old Soviet Union

Ronald Reagan, he sold us out too. So I don’t care what he might have to say.

Time will tell how this may play out. But I strongly believe that it will not end well for the every day working man nor our military.
More and more countries are aligning with Russia to ditch the dollar, not good for our economy
The demolition of the gas pipe line to Europe along with Europe stepping up their war efforts against Russia may cripple them when Russia turns off the energy. They will be useless

Yes Putin is crazy and bold and desperate. Hopefully he will not be pushed to use nukes.

We all believe what we want.

I hope you are right.

But our interference in the wars of other nations has not worked out well so far.

 

[Pack Mack]

You really believe that Zelensky is not corrupt. Would you have me believe that he chopped down his father’s cherry tree and could not lie about it or he walked nine miles to return a penny that was not his.
Moral, honest, truthful? He is jined at the hip with the Biden’s

How do you know so much? You will never know all the truth listening to any news outlets. If you had personal every day contact with the Zelensky administration do You expect them to admit corruption? No
I don’t trust our government much less a strong charismatic character out of the old Soviet Union

Ronald Reagan, he sold us out too. So I don’t care what he might have to say.

Time will tell how this may play out. But I strongly believe that it will not end well for the every day working man nor our military.
More and more countries are aligning with Russia to ditch the dollar, not good for our economy
The demolition of the gas pipe line to Europe along with Europe stepping up their war efforts against Russia may cripple them when Russia turns off the energy. They will be useless

Yes Putin is crazy and bold and desperate. Hopefully he will not be pushed to use nukes.

We all believe what we want.

I hope you are right.

But our interference in the wars of other nations has not worked out well so far.

Support for Ukraine is important. You lumped a lot together Biden’s Reagan. Interesting.
Here’s some information about US military intervention in other countries.

US Interventions

Global Policy Forum is a policy watchdog that follows the work of the United Nations. We promote accountability and citizen participation in decisions on peace and security, social justice and international law.

archive.globalpolicy.org

 

[basser]

Patriarch Kirill worked for the KGB in the 1970s, Swiss media reports

Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill, a close supporter of Russian President Vladimir Putin, worked for the Russian intelligence service in Switzerland in the 1970s, according to two Swiss newspapers, citing declassified archives.

www.euronews.com

 

[basser]

A carnival float with papier-mache caricatures of Russian President Vladimir Putin (L) kissing a Russian-orthodox priest, takes part in the traditional Rose Monday carnival parade in the western German city of Duesseldorf March 3, 2014. The Rose Mond

Download this stock image: A carnival float with papier-mache caricatures of Russian President Vladimir Putin (L) kissing a Russian-orthodox priest, takes part in the traditional Rose Monday carnival parade in the western German city of Duesseldorf March 3, 2014. The Rose Monday parades in...

www.alamy.com

 

[basser]

In Pictures: Revellers enjoy Carnival street parades across Germany

Hundreds of thousands of revellers have taken to the streets across Germany to celebrate Carnival – dressed up in colourful costumes amid an abundance of sweets, flowers and alcohol.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

 

[Pack Mack]

Opinion: In Ukraine, a river of horrors has swelled to a flood

My organization, the Center for Civil Liberties, has been documenting abductions, illegal detentions, rapes, tortures and extra-judicial killings in the occupied territories since 2014, writes Nobel Peace Prize winner Oleksandra Matviichuk. But since February last year, that river of horrors has...

www.cnn.com

 

[basser]

Opinion: In Ukraine, a river of horrors has swelled to a flood

My organization, the Center for Civil Liberties, has been documenting abductions, illegal detentions, rapes, tortures and extra-judicial killings in the occupied territories since 2014, writes Nobel Peace Prize winner Oleksandra Matviichuk. But since February last year, that river of horrors has...

www.cnn.com

Good piece to try to understand what is happening there.

Unless you study the issues closely or lived them, it is difficult to understand how living in the former Soviet Republics robbed people of so much, corrupted society in fundamental ways at a basic community and individual business level, and how the people who lived it couldn’t comprehend it all themselves until they began to see an alternative. Some of them never awoke from the nightmare and still can’t see the light. Others did and look back in amazement and horror at their previous life, and do their best to move away from it even while recognizing how it still shapes their mindset.

This is why the Ukrainians fight as they do. They know what awaits them if they fail.

In the West, we have no clue about any of this. Most Americans couldn’t find Tbilisi or Grozny on a map, and if they were shown them, wouldn’t understand why I even brought them up.

Putin is a modern day Hitler, supported by a population that lives in a foggy dream world where reality shifts according to the whims of a few people and not by the world of actual experience. So they march off to their slaughter believing first that they are fighting Nazis, then the West and now protecting old-world values from American social deviants.

Imagine that. A former KGB agent of the Soviet Union, that once preached God was a figment of the imagination, now is the protector of traditional values.

 

[Brokenfang]

I watched the Morning Joe special about the war Thursday night. One of the interesting things that stood out to me was how aggressive the Biden Administration’s response was before the war began. We actually began preparing Ukraine for the invasion 6 months before it began with both intelligence and arms. When the invasion began, Ukraine was ready. The element of surprise was turned around on Putin. He was the one who was surprised at the unexpected resistance and preparation his forces faced.

 

[Brokenfang]

The timing of the invasion was no coincidence. Putin didn’t expect the US and NATO to have such unity and opposition to his plans.
He thought that TaliDon had created so much chaos and division in America and within NATO that there would be little opposition to his invasion.
He got TaliDon elected for this purpose, chaos and division. He also thought that by getting TaliDon elected he would be rewarded with relief from sanctions imposed by Obama for Crimea.
Putin was successful to a large extent. It is evident now in the support he is receiving from the Trumpublicans.
He underestimated Biden however. Even before he was inaugurated, Biden began rebuilding the cohesion and relations with our NATO allies that TaliDon had tried to destroy.
It just really brings home the reality that if TaliDon was still in office, Putin would now be ruling Ukraine.

 

[Brokenfang]

You have to admit, it was pretty awesome seeing Biden walking around in Kyiv with Zelenskyy while air raid sirens were sounding. Couple of real badasses, those two. A moment that will go down in history. A finger in Putin’s eye.

 

[Pack Mack]

The timing of the invasion was no coincidence. Putin didn’t expect the US and NATO to have such unity and opposition to his plans.
He thought that TaliDon had created so much chaos and division in America and within NATO that there would be little opposition to his invasion.
He got TaliDon elected for this purpose, chaos and division. He also thought that by getting TaliDon elected he would be rewarded with relief from sanctions imposed by Obama for Crimea.
Putin was successful to a large extent. It is evident now in the support he is receiving from the Trumpublicans.
He underestimated Biden however. Even before he was inaugurated, Biden began rebuilding the cohesion and relations with our NATO allies that TaliDon had tried to destroy.
It just really brings home the reality that if TaliDon was still in office, Putin would now be ruling Ukraine.

The declining birth rate in Russia and declining number of military age men coupled with Ukraine fighting corruption and Ukraine increasing business with European partners were also factors in the Russian invasion. NATO’s weak response to the Crimean invasion in 2014 lead Putin to believe NATO would be weak again.

 

[Brokenfang]

The declining birth rate in Russia and declining number of military age men coupled with Ukraine fighting corruption and Ukraine increasing business with European partners were also factors in the Russian invasion. NATO’s weak response to the Crimean invasion in 2014 lead Putin to believe NATO would be weak again.

We learned a lesson from Crimea and it had a decided influence on how we catered our response this time. In Crimea, Putin got the jump on us. We couldn’t do anything about it after the fact but sanction him. We denied him that luxury with Ukraine. We were all over this attack well before he launched. The amount of communication between our friends was incredible. The amount of communication with Russia was incredible. We warned them many times the sanctions they would face if they went ahead with it.
We were all over it from every conceivable angle. Cyber, military, economic, energy, political. We controlled the narrative and strategy for all aspects of the deterrence and defense. We stayed ahead of Putin the whole way this time.

 

[Macsimus]

The numbers below should not continue - European countries need to step up!!!

 

[pintail]

"We were all over it from every conceivable angle. Cyber, military, economic, energy, political. We controlled the narrative and strategy for all aspects of the deterrence and defense. We stayed ahead of Putin the whole way this time."

Glad Biden was "all over it". If not Russia might have invaded Ukraine or if they did the war would have been over very quickly.

 

[Brokenfang]

"We were all over it from every conceivable angle. Cyber, military, economic, energy, political. We controlled the narrative and strategy for all aspects of the deterrence and defense. We stayed ahead of Putin the whole way this time."

Glad Biden was "all over it". If not Russia might have invaded Ukraine or if they did the war would have been over very quickly.

?

 

[HAWBR]

 

[packman30]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/politics/fact-check-zelensky-americans-fighting-ukraine-video/index.html

 

[Macsimus]

A profound leader who can read an index card of lies

Any poster on this board would have done a better job than Uncle Joe and Germany is a joke who has contributed basically nothing to the fight - needs to change for a positive outcome!